Finding Your Norinco SKS Production Date
That should give more clear data. Where things will get a bit dicey, and I suspect this might happen, is if you don't find a clean break, and there are "ghost" rifles with higher numbers than the lowest found with the Jianshe arsenal mark.
Brent - "RM" sent me a very thorough breakdown of his logic for re-sequencing these rifles. He's quick to say that these are still just theories, but I'll say that he's certainly put a lot of thought into it. To be honest, it will take me some time to wrap my head around all of his proposals, and I'd like to independently verify what I can of what he's saying and he'd like for that to be done , but I'm really impressed with his approach so far.
Don't take it to be gospel yet he's certainly not! If we can ever find documentary evidence to prove what went on with the production of these early rifles, I don't doubt that at least some of what he's proposing is going to turn out to be right on target. The process now, is to try to disprove his theories. The vexing thing is that so much of what we are dealing with has to account for an absence of data such as there not seeming to be any body of info about 1 million series rifles.
One of the biggest cautions that historians are trained to embrace is that you shouldn't try to draw any conclusions about an absence of information Well, here are some pics of my Recent Tiger purchase. Some pitting, but for the most part not too bad. The wood is bad and I am still working on it. So can anyone interpret these for me?
Finding Your Norinco SKS Production Date | Norinco SKS Production | Gun Carrier
All matching 's as far as I can tell. If that's all matching that's a really nice score, a Russian! Very nice addition for the money! I was thinking that, but didn't want to get too excited.
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Unfortunately, the wood is most likely not going to be salvageable, but we'll see. Looking at the Serial Number database on sksboards, your serial number shows up between and on the Tula rifles. Sounds like a good rifle to have, congrats. Still working my way through that thread. I just received my first SKS from Classic today. I have not taken it apart yet but did managed to give it a good wipe down.
Everything is in fact matching but the wood is really rough. I am going to draw the cosmoline out but would love a good video of what to do next to bring back some of the wood. I do not want to strip it but clean it up I guess. Yingpin - where's the serial stamped on your stock? It is really feint but shows J Yingpin - Here's a cousin of your rifle's. I think this is one of mine, but I'm not certain.
If you are thinking about "drawing out" the cosmoline using heat, please don't. Use mineral spirits charcoal lighter You'll use most of a roll of towels to clean the rifle, but it will be much cleaner. That backward "J" is now "maybe" a weird "G" or even an "L" in a sksboard thread. I'm glad my K is clearly defined. Who knows what it might turn into next? This is FUN, you know! It's exciting but the theory is only a month old. Sure is convincing from what data has been presented, if you can get past all of the back and forth in the threads.
But no one brought up the most important piece of information. The Chinese are excellent at direct copies, and then refine and change items to their liking. Is it possible that the Ghost guns were a gift from the Russians to the Chinese when the tooling was handed over, but the Russians didn't want their arsenal stamp on them? The Russians then taught the Chinese how to build the letter guns, under their direct supervision, which is why they don't have Russian proofs, but different serial numbers.
Norinco SKS Production | Handy Info to Keep in Your Back Pocket
The new data collection certainly opens up new avenues of interpretation. Maybe even the ghosts were assembled at the "IZZY" arsenal by Chinese trainees, so they could get their hands on the equipment before it was shipped over. I know there were some "alternate factory" theories , this is just stretching the theories back to Mama Russia. I love this intrigue! With the exception of a very few points, all that's out there online is speculation based upon the best available data. While I find these new theories interesting, and generally based upon some pretty good logic, I don't find any theory truly convincing.
As more and more data points are gathered about this group of rifles, assuming that it's accurately reported, we start to be able to get a better picture of what might have been going on, but that doesn't make anything a fact. Perhaps the worst flaw in some arguments I've seen is where people make assumptions of fact based upon a lack of info. For example, when people say, "We don't have any data on 1-million-series rifles, so here's why We don't know how rifles were selected to be sent to Albania, why those particular ones were sent, etc.
They could have just decided to upgrade the arms of some given units first, and all their old rifles were shipped off. For all we know, there are storage facilities in China that are stacked to the roof with 1-million-series rifles, but those just happened to be sent to units that were a long way from a convenient seaport, and when the time came to ship arms to Albania, they weren't considered. Just because that leaves a gap in our knowledge, it doesn't give us an obligation to fill that gap with speculation.
The only "Date" entry in the format is for date of receipt and disposition, if applicable. Has the format changed? While there's been a bunch of discussion about dating these rifles, I believe only one posting before yours said anything about bound books. I'm using a bound book template that I found online as a PDF. It lists a year of manufacture, which normally isn't a big deal to fill out.
Now that the Chinese SKS' have arrived, things are more complicated. Related to the theories about dating these guns and placing them into some sequence of manufacture, I have a strong hunch mentioned on MDS before that the letter guns were originally intended for the Chinese cavalry. Most of what the PRC military knew about arms and fighting came from their earlier experiences going up against the Japanese invaders. The crack troops of the Japanese army during that invasion were still horse-mounted cavalry, and their rifles had slings mounted to the side of the stock so that they would lie flat against the rider's back.
There are simply precious few photos from the time period and before showing Chinese cavalry, but we know that they did exist. By about the time that these rifles were shipped to Albania, horse-mounted cavalry was being quickly replaced by mechanized troops or had already been , so one possibility is that the "letter guns" were among the most practical to dispose of as surplus.
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For what they are worth, here are some photos that I've found. Japanese Cavalry Arisaka 44 Chinese Infantry Chinese Cavalry from our view, the guy in the front, right, clearly has a side-mounted sling. Now, just to confuse things, here's what appears to be some Chinese honor guards, with rifles without slings, but with side-mounted rear swivels.
I can't make out all that I want, though. Is there some sort of cover on the bayonets? I like it as much as anything I've heard. It's clear to me that there is something "special" about these letter guns with the side swivels. For cavalry, as you point out, they make sense, and would be a "special" build. Here's my template if anyone wants to use it. One rifle with a fake serial number is entered as an example.
Since this thread is going a little far afield with new discussions of bound book templates, let's start a new thread just for that. I'll post one in a minute Those bayos look blued to me but I'm on a ipad and can only enlarge the pic so much. I cant get a letter gun with a side sling to save my life. Ordered 3 from classic at various times and one from RT and all were 6 digit ghosts.
Maybe one was a 5 digit ghost.
Yooper John's SKS - Battle rifle of many nations
Nothing to really complain about I guess but still Might call SOG and see if they'll work with you on it, for the hand select fee. I know they'll talk on the phone. Did you put in a request for one in the sidenote when you ordered with Classic? I requested a letter rifle and thats what I received. Yep, twice, and no letter gun. Still though, they did send very nice rifles.
What are you saying? I got 1 letter rifle fron Classic and 1 from AIM, the rest are "ghost". They are out there. Not trying to be mean by posting this, but the more you look, the luckier you get. I learned that from guys like Mawkie. He doesn't just have guys show up on his doorstep well HE might have had some of that, too.
That rifle is amazing, for realz. It certainly IS a beauty!
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